| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| mntnmagic |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 17:49:38
if there is any historical correlation between the timing of tsunamis and war (not a God-trip, more like the incredible energy exchange that must occur when large numbers of people are being killed). Trivia buffs?
every tool is a weapon if you hold it right |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mntnmagic |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 15:50:20
Absolutely do not think you are out of line asking--religion/spirituality is such an interesting topic! I kinda agree with what lester said--I was gonna say agnostic, but I like areligious. I do consider myself a spiritual person, just not really religious. My folks encouraged me and my three brothers and to go to church with friends and see if there was anything that really spoke to us. I went to all kinds of churches, but none of them really touched me except unitarian and when it came down to it, I didn't feel like I needed church. One of my younger brothers got real involved with a church in high school, but it seemed to be more social and he seemed to dig the whole ritualistic ordered feel of it.
I absolutely believe in spirits and believe that humans do have a spiritual connection to nature, being animals and all. I also have a problem with how religion has been used to reinforce intolerance and cruelty. That has never made sense to me and has always been difficult for me to swallow. When I was in middle school, I went to a school board meeting to protest the proposed changing of "winter break" to "christmas break" and "spring break" to "easter break." I held a sign advocating that the names remain the same, and after an older man had spoken and made his way out of the room, he walked by and hissed "you're gonna burn in hell." I don't know, just didn't seem like a Christian thing to say.
Always seemed to me that the few simple lessons my parents emphasized: to treat others with kindness and respect--not just how I would want to be treated, but better, to treat all people fairly, and to always do what I could do to help others were enough to guide my life in a way that I didn't feel I needed much else. I also absolutely respect all religions and people of great faith. Some of the most wonderful people I know are very religious, some of my best friends have been. Churches are also usually wonderful social organizations. They serve as support for families and individuals and often do great things for the community. The role of the church in the civil rights movement was nothing less than tremendous. I do thank God for that--not a god I believe in, but the God that helped and continues to help many people through trying times.
So, those are my thoughts in a nutshell. Another Ani quote for you: "cause the animal i am knows very well that nature is our teacher and our mother, and god is just another story that we tell."
quote:
Originally posted by Concolor
quote:
Originally posted by ziggy lester
in the end, the sum of all of human achievement is nil. we are a minute by-product of the universe, it has been here long before us and will exist long after we are gone. there is no god.
quote:
Originally posted by mntnmagic
yes, yes...almost double-majored in geology. and i don't believe in god, either. but i do like to imagine...so don't rain on me. there is always a possibility of anything--even if it is a ridiculous improbability.
Just a curiosity, and if you think I'm out of line, feel free to ignore my question, but I'm wondering if you have a particular exegetical interpretation or logical framework for your atheism.
I have a couple of friends in Germany who hold the same opinion, and I'd like to see if the derivations are similar.
--------------------
A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.
every tool is a weapon if you hold it right |
| Concolor |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 14:22:41
quote:
Originally posted by ziggy lester
there is absolutely no reason why an image of jesus shouldn't have blue eyes. that's the artist's call, not the viewer's. i think you're also forgetting that jesus' eyes in that picture are reflecting the color of the earth, so appear blue. it's like a rembrandt painting. but jesus, we're talking about a crappy alias!
Ah! I totally missed that. Thanks for the clarification.
quote:
but to answer you're question, i'm areligious. i kind of made that word up but it's better than "athiest" or "agnostic". you can just see and feel god everywhere, in everything, and it's obvious that believing in her has enormous effects on individuals and groups of peoples actions and lives - that's undeniable, so god exists fa sho. i just choose not to explore god myself, no disrespect.
I see. Kinda like my heroine, Wendy. "If God wants to tell me anything, he knows where to find me."
Okay. 'ppreciate.
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A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still. |
| Concolor |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 14:19:49
quote:
Originally posted by triscuit
heysuess cristo's eyes were probably brown, yes.
however, "could not have had blue eyes," is false.
sorry, my "gene nit-picking" is acting up as well.
Hmmm.
Possibly.
But isn't that girl of Afghani descent? (I love her eyes!) Really, though, I guess it's a silly thing to be obsessing over. I'll bow out.
--------------------
A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still. |
| ziggy lester |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:47:43
there is absolutely no reason why an image of jesus shouldn't have blue eyes. that's the artist's call, not the viewer's. i think you're also forgetting that jesus' eyes in that picture are reflecting the color of the earth, so appear blue. it's like a rembrandt painting. but jesus, we're talking about a crappy alias!
but to answer you're question, i'm areligious. i kind of made that word up but it's better than "athiest" or "agnostic". you can just see and feel god everywhere, in everything, and it's obvious that believing in her has enormous effects on individuals and groups of peoples actions and lives - that's undeniable, so god exists fa sho. i just choose not to explore god myself, no disrespect.
The precious made us do it. |
| triscuit |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 10:45:18
heysuess cristo's eyes were probably brown, yes.
however, "could not have had blue eyes," is false.
sorry, my "gene nit-picking" is acting up as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Concolor
quote:
.
Jesus, being of middle-eastern descent as is generally accepted, could not have had blue eyes.
Sorry, but my nit-picking gene is acting up. 
--------------------
A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still.
i seriously HEART sigs |
| Concolor |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 06:32:14
quote:
Originally posted by weeping jesus
.
Jesus, being of middle-eastern descent as is generally accepted, could not have had blue eyes.
Sorry, but my nit-picking gene is acting up.
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A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still. |
| Concolor |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 06:30:28
quote:
Originally posted by ziggy lester
in the end, the sum of all of human achievement is nil. we are a minute by-product of the universe, it has been here long before us and will exist long after we are gone. there is no god.
quote:
Originally posted by mntnmagic
yes, yes...almost double-majored in geology. and i don't believe in god, either. but i do like to imagine...so don't rain on me. there is always a possibility of anything--even if it is a ridiculous improbability.
Just a curiosity, and if you think I'm out of line, feel free to ignore my question, but I'm wondering if you have a particular exegetical interpretation or logical framework for your atheism.
I have a couple of friends in Germany who hold the same opinion, and I'd like to see if the derivations are similar.
--------------------
A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still. |
| weeping jesus |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 13:56:47
.
|
| mntnmagic |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 13:11:24
yes, yes...almost double-majored in geology. and i don't believe in god, either. but i do like to imagine...so don't rain on me. there is always a possibility of anything--even if it is a ridiculous improbability.
every tool is a weapon if you hold it right |
| ziggy lester |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 12:59:17
obviously, i only listed wars that were near in time to devastating tsunamis. theres lots more wars that don't have corresponding catastrophes
i think you're barking up an imaginary tree - but go ahead and imagine it if you want.
there were at least 60 tsunamis every decade in the 20th century. i don't have a list of them all. it stands to reason that there are a lot of tsunamis, all the time, all over the world.
if you want to look at "energy exchange", start with plate tectonics -
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/geology/tecmech.html
- the image may take a while to load -
in simple version is that the earth is a raging ball of molten fire with a cool, solid crust. think of a marshmallow you just toasted and pulled out of the campfire, except that it's hurtling through space in an orbit around the sun, which itself spinning around the center of the galaxy, which orbits around some center of the universe.
convenction currents under the earth cause the crust to shift, which causes earthquakes, which sometimes cause tsunamis. of course, tsunamis can also be caused by landslides or meteors striking the ocean.
in the end, the sum of all of human achievement is nil. we are a minute by-product of the universe, it has been here long before us and will exist long after we are gone. there is no god.
The precious made us do it. |
| mntnmagic |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 12:30:19
hmm...my hair is actually to my waist, but minus the headband, change the shirt, make the nose a little smaller, and replace the soda with a beer or a fifth, and that is a pretty acurate depiction--impressive!
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasure
"These folks like their taxes low and their gays married."
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
The pleasure... was ME.
every tool is a weapon if you hold it right |
| Pleasure |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 11:25:48
"These folks like their taxes low and their gays married."
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
The pleasure... was ME.
|
| mntnmagic |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 05:03:14
damn, lester, you have exceeded my expectations. did you notice that there was a tsunami following each set of conflicts you listed (except that the tsunami was listed before each set, but dates correlate)?
new challenge: for each set of conflicts from the cross-listing, what was the extent of life lost per conflict?
appease me--my theory is that as conflict and life lost increases, so does the likelihood of a tsunami--a simple energy exchange.
every tool is a weapon if you hold it right |
| flipwilson |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 20:54:51
The Guardian ran a neat op-ed piece Monday or Tuesday about how much the US and Britain spend on Iraq vs. how much they're spending on tsunami relief. It said people rather than governments are taking the lead, and had a great anecdote about a homeless man emptying his pockets to chip in.
I can't find ther article online. If only I knew a librarian.
Talk about it - If it's your first time dogging, then you need to talk about what you're looking to get out of it. |
| ziggy lester |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 18:38:17
I'll take a stab:
The short answer is that there are always tsunamis and there are always wars.
MSN has an article about the history of Tsunamis. http://www.newsletters.newsweek.msnbc.com/id/6759891/ - keep in mind that they put the death toll for this most recent one at 21,000 for their chart, and it's actually up at something like 150,000.
Wikipedia also gives the history of Tsunamis at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsunami.
Wikipedia is a non-authoritative source - it's publishing model rejects the idea of authorship altogether. I love that, but some folks hate it - I'm willing to bet most of the info in the Tsunami article is independently verifiable.
For fun, here's an interactive map of conflicts with at least 1000 military battle deaths between 1900 and 2001, brought to you by the folks who give you peace, http://nobelprize.org/peace/educational/conflictmap/index.html
Wikipedia's list of wars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_wars are a little broader.
Here's a cross index of Wikipedia's list of major Tsunamis with their list of wars:
6100 B.C. and before:
no wars listed
1650 B.C. - Santorini:
ca. 1600 BC - Hyksos conquest of Egypt
1755 - Lisbon, Portugal:
French and Indian War (British colonies in America)
1883 - Krakatoa explosive eruption:
1857 - 1901 Caste War of Yucatán (Mexico)
1879 - 1884 War of the Pacific between Chile and the joint forces of Bolivia and Peru
1881 - 1885 Franco-Chinese War
1960 - Chilean tsunami
1948 - 1960 Malayan Emergency
1952 - 1960 Mau Mau Uprising in Kenya
1954 - 1962 Algerian War of Independence
1954 - 1964 Vietnamese Civil War
1955 - 1972 First Sudanese Civil War
1960 - 1965 Congo Crisis
1960 - 1996 Guatemalan Civil War
1964 - Good Friday tsunami
1954 - 1964 Vietnamese Civil War
1955 - 1972 First Sudanese Civil War
1960 - 1965 Congo Crisis
1960 - 1996 Guatemalan Civil War
1964 - 1973 Vietnam War (aka the Second Indochina War) between the U.S.-led coalition (including the government of South Vietnam) and the National Liberation Front (NLF), backed by North Vietnam
1964 - 1975 Mozambique's War of Independence
2004 - Indian Ocean tsunami
Wikipedia is not good at identifying which recent years are ongoing and which are finished.
I think all this realy proves is that tsunamis happen occasionally and wars keep getting more and more numerous. I hope that makes you as sick as it makes me.
I could probably hunt around for a list of all tsunamis ever if you want it. The USGS has a good list of links at http://temp.water.usgs.gov/tsunami/links.html - my sense is that historical Tsunamis are difficult to research because they don't leave much trace (even if they cause damage, the damage might have been caused by something else).
The precious made us do it. |
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